Curse

blueyoda · Nov 11, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

totally agree ... FUN & TEDIOUS are very different.

those who like the patch can have their "fun" ... but to me and many others, it's tedious and a waste of time.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Nov 11, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I like the update. Good job ANET....don't let some of these unhappy people bring you down. The AI change was a good thing.

NeoSaber · Nov 11, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Just to add more observations of the new AI behavior.

I took my E/Me back to Frozen Forest, still trying to capture Ward Against Harm (the boss didn't show up after several tries). Finally I found him and the battle went like this:

Arknel Havenwood casts Ward Against Harm
Oenth Sabreth casts Fireball
Arknel Havenwood panics and runs out of his own ward
Henchmen rush into attack
Arknel Havenwood casts Ward Against Harm again
Oenth Sabreth casts Phoenix
Arknel Havenwood panics again and runs out of his own ward again
Arknel Havenwood runs into a mountain and stops
Oenth Sabreth casts Immolate
Henchmen chop Arknel Havenwood to pieces while he burns to a cinder

Also, at one point I was caught in a fight with the monk boss Enshal Hardwood and an Ice Imp. That fight went like this:

Oenth Sabreth attacks Ice Imp
Henchmen charge in to attack Ice Imp
Enshal Hardwood spams Reversal of Fortune on Ice Imp
Henchmen can't kill the Ice Imp
Oenth Sabreth casts Fireball at Enshal Hardwood
Enshal Hardwood panics and runs into a mountain
Enshal Hardwood stops doing anything
Ice Imp gets slaughtered in 2 seconds
Enshal Hardwood gets slaughtered a few seconds later

This AI isn't not an improvement

Paradigm · Nov 11, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Damn near 400 Petitions for the reversal of this update. If you do not agree with this patch please Petition...

http://www.petitiononline.com/qd22556/petition.html

lord_shar · Nov 11, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I like the update. Good job ANET....don't let some of these unhappy people bring you down. The AI change was a good thing.

Even if it is, I hope that the Underworld ecto drop rates get turned up to compensate. It is MUCH harder in there now, and my groups usually see 0-2 ecto drop every 2 trips.

apocalypse_xx · Nov 11, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Even if it is, I hope that the Underworld ecto drop rates get turned up to compensate. It is MUCH harder in there now, and my groups usually see 0-2 ecto drop every 2 trips.

Ya, and then those that still solo UW will get even more ectos, people will complain and solo players will get beat up again, probably to the detriment of non solo players too

Memphis · Nov 11, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaklex

Oh gee, players are going to have to use their brains to play PvE now, isn't that just tragic, and so it might add a few minutes here and there to kill enemies, big deal. Learn to adapt, examine ALL of the skills available to your characters, create new builds.

Killing enemy mobs that just stand around is no fun, so now they retreat and re-attack, as long as you don't chase them, switch targets more often, make them come back to you sooner. Play intelligently, which I understand is hard for a lot of people as they just can't grasp that concept. From what I've seen the enemy doesn't run around willy nilly, but will run away and return to combat, and not always before regaining health.

The chances of this update being rolled back, IMO, nill.

Come on then Mr Wisdom, explain how you 'play intelligently' and what build you would use as an elementalist hit by this. Rather than just calling everyone dumb with no substantion whatsoever other than a 'i'm better than you' attitude.

Yes they do scatter randomly and without a very organised team the harder battles of the game are going to be nothing more than a disorganised hell.

Call me what you like but I've always been convinced that the tanks with all the armour are best for tanking while monks heal and casters do their stuff from a safe distance was the most 'intelligent' battle tactic.

Half the players who even reach Ring of Fire still don't play like this so what the hell is convincing people PUGS are going to start using bait, snare and then attack tactics is unfathomable. Just watch your average PUG take on Thunderhead. For all I know you're the real Captain Wow and can take on anything and win, but from Anets perspective in keeping the game open to a wide audience, casual players and in turn general player numbers, they just sent the game straight up a certain creek, without a certain paddle.

lord_shar · Nov 11, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Ya, and then those that still solo UW will get even more ectos, people will complain and solo players will get beat up again, probably to the detriment of non solo players too

I haven't heard of anyone truely soloing UW since the 11/10 patch. I can see it being done with a necro + solo monk who DOESN'T use smite AoE *hint* *hint*

apocalypse_xx · Nov 11, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

I haven't heard of anyone truely soloing UW since the 11/10 patch. I can see it being done with a necro + solo monk who DOESN'T use smite AoE *hint* *hint*

Actually, solo UW is still very easy, just take a look at all the monkies in toa still

Numa Pompilius · Nov 11, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

And how exactly is not being able to have any level of control over a battle when the enemies keep running in and coming back like a bloody drunken boomerang? ---
Running into a disorganised brawl where enemies constantly scatter and come back to random aggro is not fun in any sense. Granted it's comical compared to what we all once knew, but do you really want the whole game like that?

Are you seriously complaining that the enemies you're trying to kill don't comply with your attempts at killing them???

You've presumably played some PvP - do human players stand still and bang on the warrior while the elementalists bomb them?
Are PvP matches orderly affairs where the opposition does as you want?
Does the responsibility to keep a PvP match from degenerating into a brawl rest on your enemies, or on your team?
Is it the job of your enemies to make sure your team acts disciplined?

The mobs now behave a lot more like human players do - they get out of AoE and target casters first. They even try to kite human warriors to trigger adds.

In short, the mob AI is a lot better now.

It is completely beyond me that people complain about this.

It makes farming harder? Well, that means that each item you DO find will fetch more money.
It makes soloing the UW harder? Yeah, so what?
It makes the whole PvE campaign harder? Good!
It makes other classes than eles, wars and monks useful? Great!

Alanus · Nov 11, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Well The whole thing Guild Wars was meant to revolve around is teamwork, and obviously soloing defeats this purpose. However how are people suposed to collect the huge amounts of money it takes for armour and stuff because like most people i can spend maybe 2 hours a day at this game if I'm not really doing anything and thats not a lot of time really. So saying that a it takes more time and is now more tedious to farm and that I must re-make my build yet again seems to agrivate me somewhat. I can tell you one thing and that is a lot more people will be buying their gold.

However the new AI does give everything a bit more of a challenge, its just going to come down to who is willing to change and who is not. And I like this in the fact that maybe my Ranger can actually get in a group now.

Igedit · Nov 11, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Why can't I stay and discuss something I once enjoyed? Oh, btw, in case some have not noticed, the gap between solo players and those who do not, is getting larger as we speak, they are making a killing off sup water and air runes

So you would agree that nerfing soloing is a good thing because of the gap that is increasing, right?

Feminist Terrorist · Nov 11, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

So essentially Eles are now just weirdly dressed, not-much-damage-dealing characters who can be dangerous to the party they're in?

From everything I've read last night and today, and from my own experiences last night, Anet could have achieved less damagae by simply removing AoE spells altogether. At least then, aggro wouldn't have been broken, and we wouldn't have groups of enemies running around in a frenzy, attacking pretty much randomly.

IMO, Anet made a big mistake with this update. I, for one, will be forced to play less, since what used to take me 30 minutes will now take an hour, and I've got other things to do. I'm hugely disappointed with GW now.

apocalypse_xx · Nov 11, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igedit

So you would agree that nerfing soloing is a good thing because of the gap that is increasing, right?

To be honest, if GW is to be what anet wants it to be...a team based game, then yes, soloing should be removed, I think alot of people will leave because of it, but I actually think that many have left already since there just isn't much to do for solo players

delfin42 · Nov 11, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meta Physical

AoE = Useless?
What the HELL?!?!

AoE IS NOT USELESS.

AoE cannot be used quite the same manner in which it was used last week.

There is a difference.

Yamat · Nov 11, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alanus

Well The whole thing Guild Wars was meant to revolve around is teamwork, and obviously soloing defeats this purpose. However how are people suposed to collect the huge amounts of money it takes for armour and stuff because like most people i can spend maybe 2 hours a day at this game if I'm not really doing anything and thats not a lot of time really. So saying that a it takes more time and is now more tedious to farm and that I must re-make my build yet again seems to agrivate me somewhat. I can tell you one thing and that is a lot more people will be buying their gold.

Armor isn't expensive... ecto and shards are. If people can't afford them, the price will drop.

Almighty Zi · Nov 11, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

The way that I interpret Gaile's post is that ANET aren't opposed to farming but feel that players shouldn't be able to solo farm high end content (e.g UW). I agree with this. As the game is a team based game, hence the party window at every outpost and mission, it makes a mockery of the game when players can go out into high level areas on their own (without henchmen) and actively farm it.

There is nothing wrong with farming or wanting to play on your own, however, a single player should only be able to farm low to mid level areas on their own - in a game designed for team play. If they want to get the best drops then they should group with a guildie or two and farm the higher level areas. This is how the game should have been since day one.

In response to those people that have complained that they feel that the developers aren't allowing them to play the game the way they want to, I would just like to say that the game has been designed for team play (there's no denying this fact) and although you can play it solo, you shouldn't expect to get the most out of the game this way (e.g. solo every single area). Skill tweaks and changes to creature AI will mean that some areas that could be completed by a single player no longer can be completed by a single player and vice versa (to a lesser extent). An appropriate team will always be able to complete all the areas in the game regardless of future updates.

Numa Pompilius · Nov 11, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feminist Terrorist

So essentially Eles are now just weirdly dressed, not-much-damage-dealing characters who can be dangerous to the party they're in...

...if they echo-nuke with their brain on autopilot.

An ele who drops ward against foes, or uses water or earth magic snares, THEN nukes, is a valuable member of the team.

What's changed is that mobs wont stand around and let you bore them to death any more, so water and earth magic isn't useless in PvE any more.

lord_shar · Nov 11, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Actually, solo UW is still very easy, just take a look at all the monkies in toa still

Yeah, I was just here, but the monks I saw were just standing around. I didn't see the usual train of monks lining up at the reaper and paying the entry fee...

BrandonIT · Nov 11, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

The henchies are bugged in a way that has nothing to do with AoE. If my target dies, the one I called, and they're in bubble range of other mobs, they will just sit there sometimes and do nothing. My horrors on the other hand went. But the henchies just stood there like idiots. All the henchies. And they were inside half a radius.

Wanted to get this pointed out again. I also had the same problem with henchies standing within aggro's circle of Enchanted Bows, and even with me attacking the bows, the henchies refused to help.

I don't want the patch rolled back for this, but I think the henchie AI needs to be reviewed so this doesn't happen. It's quite annoying to stand there as a monk tanking the fire from two Enchanted Bows when none of the ranged henchies will fire back, even when they're taking damage. (This incident occurred engaging the 2 Enchanted Bows on each side of the main bridge leading to the Enemy Ghostly Hero in Dunes of Despair. The bridge had not dropped yet.)